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Two Sites, One Job And A Missing 85%

DISCLAIMER: Out of respect for the client involved in this situation, specific project details have been omitted at their request. If you are familiar with the job posting in question, please do not share specifics. Thank you.

Yesterday was an interesting day. It started out like most. A couple scripts to take care of in the morning. A couple hours of marketing scheduled for the afternoon. Routine. Uneventful. Just the way I like it.

Then I made the mistake of going on Facebook.

It Always Starts On Facebook!

In a private group exclusive to World-Voices members, a post was shared. In it, the details of a voice over job being offered on two casting sites. This, of course is nothing out of the ordinary. Clients seeking a professional voice over will often take advantage of different sites to gain the broadest collection of auditions.

Thing is, there was a slight budget discrepancy between the two casting sites. By slight, what I mean is, the budget listed on one site was roughly 85% less. To the tune of a few thousand dollars. Did I mention it was the same project on both sites?

By now we are all well familiar with the topic of Managed Projects on a casting site that shall remain nameless as they need no further SEO from me. We’ve heard the spin. By spin, I’m politely and delicately referring to, lies. Excuses, smoke, mirrors and a whole lot of “umm’s” and “aah’s” and “well, you see’s” were offered in the interview heard ‘round the world a few months back.

Nothing satisfactory was offered.

“I did not have sexual relations with that woman!” Did anybody else think of that at the time? Or was it just me?

I have to tell you that when I saw the details of this particular project yesterday, it kind of lit me up a bit. After this company’s CEO was seated directly in the spotlight, put under the magnifying glass and his inept attempts at apology, logic and reason were through, the optimistic, albeit somewhat naive side of me, truly believed some form of change would be implemented.

When you’re caught with your pants down, one would assume you’d quit strolling around naked.

Well, you know what they say about assuming…

It’s Time For Results!

Something you need to know about me. I’m an action man. A results man. Venting my frustrations on social media, while perhaps considered action, seldom produces results. It was time for results, and I was determined to get some.

With a little bit of effort, I was able to determine the company responsible for the project in question. My gut told me they were unaware of the 85% budget discrepancy, but I needed to know for sure. At the risk of looking a fool, and facing the likely prospect of an awkward conversation, I decided to give this client a call and find out.

Can you guess what happened next?

Surprise, surprise… they were quite taken back by an 85% budget discrepancy on their Managed Project.

To back up my claim, I provided the client with PDF documents that showed the project listings on each of the two sites. This way, they could see exactly what the talent saw. Let’s just say they were unimpressed.

As I stated earlier, I will not go into the specifics of the project or the exact details of my conversation out of respect for this company who has done nothing wrong. I will simply say this… when they were presented with the evidence, they immediately made the decision to remove their job posting from the casting site with questionable ethics. Further to that decision, I suspect they will not be posting any projects on that site going forward.

For voice talent, it’s a small victory. We deserved it.

A Small Victory

As I explained to the client involved at the very beginning of our conversation, my motivation was simple. I suspected they were unaware of what was being done with their Managed Project, and I simply wanted to shed some light so they would have all the facts.

I’m not a crusader. I’m just a guy who believes in fair play and ethics and integrity in business.

In the midst of all this, there’s an important and valuable lesson for us as talent.

We are well aware of the practices of the casting site that shall remain nameless. We’ve thrown up our arms and aired our grievances all over the internet and social media. There was even a season of mass exodus from the site in protest. While that may feel good, and perhaps even be therapeutic, I’m not convinced it offers a viable solution to the problem which clearly still remains.

As long as clients are unaware of what’s happening (and they are clearly unaware), I don’t anticipate any lasting resolution.

What we may overlook in our frustration is the fact that clients are being taken advantage of as much as us. Perhaps even more so. Look at this one single project in question. We’re talking about thousands of dollars. How that’s not criminal is actually beyond my comprehension.

Where Do We Go From Here?

If any kind of satisfactory resolution is ever going to come to pass, it will take a significant campaign of education which reaches respectfully and professionally into the hands of the people trusting the site to hire talent for their projects. Those people, their opinions, I suspect, will carry much more weight than the collective voices of an angry talent pool.

My suggestion is simply this… when you see a dual posting such as the one today, rather than spread anger across social media and risk any kind of undue harm to the innocent reputation of the client involved, try and determine if there’s a way to reach out to them. Take screen shots of the postings on each site. Many web browsers will actually let you export web pages as PDF documents. That’s what I did today.

With the evidence in hand, send an email or make a phone call. Not to the casting site. We already know they don’t care. Take it directly to the company seeking a voice actor. Let them know what’s happening. Determine if they were aware of excessive commissions being taken out of the budget they earmarked for professional voice talent. Odds are, they have no idea this is happening. Story after story proves this so.

If you don’t want to make the phone call, send the information to me and I will!

Action produces results. Together we need to make a stand and take productive action to generate productive results. One client at a time may be a slow race, but with each new voice added to the fold it makes the cries louder.

Eventually, they’ll be impossible to ignore.

Want to be a part of the solution? Check out World-Voices at world-voices.org

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My Thoughts On Pay To Play Casting Sites

People often ask me, “Marc, why are you so against Pay To Play voice over casting sites?”

Thing is, I’m not. Not specifically, anyway.

It’s more that, in my own career, I’ve evolved beyond them. I choose not to pay for memberships with any of the casting sites. This doesn’t mean I’m against them. It’s just a choice based on what works for me and my business.

Do I share my opinions on the subject of Pay To Plays? Sure I do. I blog. That’s half of what blogging is. Sharing opinions. Isn’t it? Further to that point, because I’ve previously paid for memberships on all the big players in the online casting game, I believe I have an educated opinion.

Why don’t I use them anymore? Well, there are a few reasons. Not the least of which is, I jumped into voice over with both feet because I wanted to be in control of my career and my lifestyle. I wanted to call the shots. Make the decisions. The buck stops with me. My level of success (or failure) would be of my own doing.

Pay To Play sites, over time, took that away from me.

My Thoughts On Pay To Play Casting Sites

Consider some of these points..

  • Sites no longer allowing direct communication with clients, inhibiting my ability to provide exceptional service and also making it difficult to form long term relationships.
  • Sites inserting middlemen (Project Managers) into the equation, adding another unnecessary layer of complexity to a process that doesn’t need to be complex. Voice Seeker + Voice Talent = Voice Over. It can be that easy!
  • Sites raising membership rates (to outrageous levels) while limiting the number of opportunities talent receive.
  • Sites charging membership fees AND commissions.
  • Sites dictating my value as a talent by setting and controlling rates.

After taking some time to reflect on the entire process, what I realized was, I was paying people to control a significant portion of my time, career and success. In return, I wasn’t receiving a lot of value… if any.

“Here’s $400 so you can limit my opportunities, prevent direct client contact, manage my work, take a commission and pay me less than I’d make if I booked this job on my own.”

When you put it like that, it seems kinda absurd, doesn’t it?

The Price Of Doing Business

What you need to understand is, Pay To Play casting sites are a business. Like any other business, voice over related or not, they’re out to make a profit. I’m an entrepreneur. I’m out to make a profit! We’re all trying to make a profit. Earn a living. Pay some bills. Have some fun. Support our families.

That doesn’t make us bad people.

With the Pay To Plays, I simply found that over time, as their emphasis on profits and bottom lines for their businesses grew, my profit margin with them shrank. Substantially. The price of doing business with them simply grew too steep for my liking. Not only financially, but in my time as well.

I wouldn’t say any of the major Pay To Play sites were ever overly talent focused. I started using them around 2007, maybe. I will say in the last year or two, all of them have pretty much stopped giving a second thought to talent and our concerns whatsoever.

They’re just cashing those membership cheques and hauling money to the bank.

That’s their right as business owners.

I’m not against Pay To Play casting sites. I just don’t have much interest in doing business with them anymore.

problem-solution

A New Alternative For Voice Casting

What really irks me is how much time, effort and energy is devoted to public floggings of the Pay To Plays for their business practices. How long can you beat a dead horse before you find a new way to fill your time?

Somewhere along the way we (as talent) must draw a line in the sand. Are we going to continue to lend our voice (in whatever capacity) to the problem(s)? Or will we lend it to the solution?

Personally, I want to start focusing on the solution. I believe that solution could be VoiceOver.biz. Does it need work? Sure. But could it be something great for us as talent? Unquestionably.

Want to start being part of the solution? Let me encourage you to spend some time researching World-Voices and consider joining.

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The Root Of Low Voice Over Rates

Since the Voice Over Rates Roundtable hosted by World-Voices, I’ve been thinking a lot about voice over rates.

Some would like to believe it’s simply about two groups of people. Those who charge fair rates for voice over services. Those who lowball.

I don’t think it’s that simple.

Maybe it’s about education? That is to say, not everyone is educated (both talent and client) about fair market value for voice over services.

Maybe.

What I’ve been thinking about, though, goes a little bit deeper.

Do You Ask These Questions?

  • Do you have doubts about your ability?
  • Do you have doubts about your equipment?
  • Do you have doubts about your studio?
  • Do you have doubts about your audio quality?
  • Do you have doubts about your demos?
  • Do you have doubts about your training (or lack thereof)?
  • Do you have doubts about yourself?

If you answered yes to any of these questions, I can’t help but think that leads us to one of the main root causes of low voice over rates.

The Root Of Low Voice Over Rates

fear-300x260It’s fear.

If you were confident about yourself, your demos, your audio and studio, you’d charge what you’re worth, wouldn’t you?

If you felt like you could stand side by side with talent you look up to, you’d want to make their rates, wouldn’t you?

If you believed you could compete on ability, you wouldn’t need to compete on discount, would you?

If you answered yes, then it only confirms for me even further that fear is in fact one of the main root cases of low voice over rates.

So what are you afraid of? What’s one step you can take today to overcome?

How can I help you?

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Voice Over Rates Roundtable

Mention the word “rates” in a group of voice actors and you’re sure to get a pretty heated debate going. The opinions cover the spectrum, and few things can get people fired up as much as the subject of money. Particularly when it comes to getting paid!

marc scott world-voices professional memberOne of the many things I love about World-Voices is their desire to tackle the very sensitive subject of voice over rates. For WoVO, it’s about education. For both sides of the table. Educating talent on their own worth, and educating clients on fair market value for voice over work.

Recently, a group of industry heavyweights gathered to for a very enlightening, intelligent, and productive conversation on the subject of voice over rates. I’d strongly encourage you to find some time to sit down and watch it.

World-Voices Rates Roundtable

Special thank to Dave Courvoisier, Anne Ganguzza, Paul Strikwerda, Jeffrey Umberger, Cristina Milizia, John Coleman, Matt Cowlrick, Mary Lynn Wissner and, of course, World-Voices, for putting this roundtable together.

If you’d like to find out more about World-Voices or are interested in becoming a member visit world-voices.org.

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What I Learned At WoVOCon 2

Going to Las Vegas after a long cruel Canadian winter was an easy decision. With temps in the mid to high 20’s (80’s for my American friends), really, it was a no brainer. I don’t think it’s been that warm in Southern Ontario since around September!

Attending a conference filled with people was a little tougher. Call it a product of decades working in isolated booths in radio, television and voice over. I’m shy. Shy might be an understatement. I’m more like borderline hermit. Regardless, I was excited to attend WoVOCon 2 and I was ready to learn.

What did I learn, exactly? Well, I learned a few things…

Community

anne-ganguzza-marc-scott
Me and Anne Ganguzza

On Saturday morning, Uncle Roy (Roy B Yokelson) and Anthony Gettig caught up with me in an elevator. I had never met either of them. That didn’t stop them both from offering handshakes, a friendly welcome, and an invitation to join them for breakfast.

I stepped out of a session on marketing and the delightful Anne Ganguzza was waiting for me in the hall. She heard I was in attendance and was determined to meet me. Arms wide open, she offered a big hug and then spent 10 minutes making me blush. Anne Ganguzza is a fan of mine? How’s that even possible? I’m the one that’s the fan of her!!

Dave Courvosier and I have been chatting on Twitter for years. He’s even called me a couple times to encourage me just because that’s what Dave does. Is there a more genuine guy in our business? Dave commented several times leading up to the conference that he was looking forward to meeting me in person. When our paths finally crossed, there was a firm handshake, a warm smile and some free advice from the legend himself!

These are just a few stories of dozens I could tell from my weekend.

One thing I learned at WoVoCon was what an amazing community I’m privileged to be part of. If I’m being honest, at times over the weekend the term community wouldn’t even be appropriate. It really did feel more like family.

Caring

anthony-gettig-marc-scott
Me and Anthony Gettig

In all the years I’ve been doing voice over I’ve been so blessed to never be taken advantage of by a client. However, it’s an unfortunate situation I’ve recently found myself in for the first time and my efforts to resolve it, to this point, have been unsuccessful.

Until this weekend I’d never met Dustin Ebaugh. That didn’t stop him from lending an ear and offering much needed advice on a frustrating situation. I can’t tell you how much I appreciated Dustin’s time and wisdom. Thanks to him, I feel like I’m finally heading in a direction that will bring resolution.

Sunday afternoon I caught Uncle Roy in the hall between sessions and asked him an impossible question to answer. “I’m looking for a mic and pre I can use in my home studio, but that’s portable enough I can travel with it anywhere. What do you recommend?” Yeah… like that’s an easy answer!!

Uncle Roy offered some insight. Jodi Krangle joined in the conversation and also offered some thoughts on the subject. They took the time to walk through the options and the conversation ended with me feeling much less overwhelmed by all the choices.

Another thing I learned at WoVOCon is that people really care. When you’ve got a problem, when you’re stuck on something, when you’re looking for some advice, there are talented, wise people whom all care about you enough to help.

Confidence

Red Rock Canyon
Red Rock Canyon

My goal heading into the weekend was to learn as much as possible about marketing my voice over business more effectively. Most of the sessions I was planning to attend all had to do with marketing in one form or another.

After some of the sessions I walked away feeling slightly frustrated. I knew many of the things the presenters were talking about. In fact, I was already doing many of the things they talked about. I’d even blogged about many of their strategies and techniques.

What does that mean, I wondered to myself? If I know this stuff, if I’m already doing this stuff, what am I doing wrong? What do I need to do differently to take my business to the next level?

I took a scenic drive to the Red Rock Canyon area on my last day in Vegas, (thank you Andrea Hadhazy for the amazing recommendation). As I was doing the loop around 159 (and between stopping every five miles to be a tourist and take a hundred pictures) something hit me.

I finally realized the most valuable lesson I learned this weekend at WoVOCon.

When it hit me, I’m not going to lie, I got a little emotional.

At McCarran writing this blog!
At McCarran writing this blog!

Countless people came up to me this weekend to introduce themselves and tell me how much they appreciate my blogs and how much they’ve been encouraged by them. It was all really embarrassing for me, to tell you the truth. I’d get all flustered and wouldn’t really know how to respond. I’d much prefer to avoid any spotlights or attention.

As I reflected on this fact, while taking random pictures of breathtaking mountain views, it occurred to me that the most valuable lesson I learned at WoVOCon 2 was one in self confidence. You see, I do know what I’m doing, apparently. Now I just need to work on believing it a little more.

I’m really great at encouraging and supporting others, but, perhaps, I need to get a little better at encouraging and supporting myself!

To each and every person I met at WoVOCon this weekend, to all of you that shook my hand, said hello, offered an encouraging word, asked me to pose for a selfie more than once (yes, you Anne!), I want you to know that because of you, I’ve returned home inspired, encouraged, blessed and much more confident!

The lesson you’ve helped me learn this weekend is going to be what propels my voice over business to the next level!

Oh, and one more thing, I can’t wait to see you all next year! Is it too soon to start counting down?

Hilton Lake Las Vegas
Hilton Lake Las Vegas

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